STUDIES IN PRONUNCIATION
NOTE: I highly recommend using the search function on your browser to find certain topics on this page--which represent a collection of linguistic conversations about the nature and comparisons of ancient Hebrew pronunciation.
WHY THE YEMENITE PRONUNCIATION / DOUBLE LETTERS ?:
Rabbeinu Sa'adia Gaon (who lived approximately 1,100 years ago) was
a grammarian and expert on the Hebrew language. He wrote in his
Commentary on "Sefer Ha-Yitzirah," chapter 2, vs.3: "[There are]
seven doubles: Beth (á), Gimel (â), Daleth (ã), Kaf (ë), Pe (ô),
Resh (ø) [and] Tau (ú). Seven and not six, seven and eight, etc."
By "doubles" he means that these seven Hebrew letters take on double
sounds, depending on whether or not they carry a dot, or point, in
its middle, making them either a soft or hard letter.
Aaron Ben-Asher, the foremost expert on Hebrew grammar, and promoter
of the Tiberian massoretic texts, wrote in his "Sefer Diqduqei
Ta'amim" that the double sounding "Resh" (ø) only applied to the
inhabitants of Eretz Yisrael, but not to the Jews in Babylonia or to
those in the other diasporas.
So, today, there are only SIX Hebrew letters whose sound changes
completely with the adding of a Dagesh (dot or point) , and they are
the letters (or consonants) "Beged - Kephet." (áâ"ã ëô"ú) They are
1) "Beth"/"Veth" 2) "Jimel"/"Ghimel" 3) "Daleth"/Dhaleth"
4) "Kaf"/"Khaf" 5) "Pe"/"Fe" 6) "Tau"/"Thau."
Among all the ethnic groups of Israel who returned to the Land at
the founding of the State, the Yemenites were the only ethnic group
still giving distinct sounds for each of these letters -both, the
hard and the soft letters. Other groups had only practiced giving
partial distinct sounds to these letters, but not to all of them. So
this, Yafeu, seems to be the criteria used to judge the Yemenites as
carrying a tradition closer to the original style.
THE Hebrew LETTER Qof or Gof / Ashkenaz=Kof
QUESTION: How do you pronounce the letter that comes after after Sadi
QUESTION: ?
ANSWER: qof?
QUESTION: yah
QUESTION: Do you realize how refined Temani Hebrew is?
ANSWER: some pronounce it like a k in the back of the throat and some like a g.
QUESTION: I am told that either way... it is not such a hard sound
ANSWER: It actually is kind of a cross between the two like a cross between g and k only near the back of the throat.
QUESTION: its more throaty
ANSWER: I can tell you for sure that qof does not sound like an english k like the kaf does.
QUESTION: My friend Hhaim told me it is like G as in Girl
QUESTION: But this does not appear to be the case even though he appears to pronounce it more throaty than a hard g.
ANSWER: that is as close as you can get in english
ANSWER: Yes, it is more in the throat
QUESTION: I had no idea how similar MIZRAHIM are to the Temani pronunciation
QUESTION: in many many ways
ANSWER: There are only two ways to pronounce hebrew that are close to the original ways.
ANSWER: teymani and bavli
ANSWER: bavli pronounces the qof completely in the throat
ANSWER: where the teymani is just a tiny bit less in the throat
QUESTION: However, I do here that Obadia Yusef and the Mizrahhim do it (in the throat) too
QUESTION: SURPRISE
QUESTION: If you study Syriac and Aramaic...
QUESTION: the oldest forms
QUESTION: you will see two variants emerging
QUESTION: The Jimmel is a perfect example
QUESTION: The Temanim preserve the J/GH
QUESTION: while the Mizrachim preserved the G/GH
QUESTION: Even old Ethiopic and Arabic
ANSWER: Some teymanim pronounce G/GH instead of J/GH
QUESTION: THAT PROVES MY CASE.
QUESTION: According to the Saadiah Gaon...the Arabs have three that we lack: Jin (as the 'j' in jaywalk), a second, deeper version of our dotted Daleth, and a second, deeper version of our undotted Daleth. The very same information is imparted to us by R. Du
QUESTION: I think there were two VALID dialects
QUESTION: http://www.chayas.com/alpha-map.gif
ANSWER: I know what letters he is talking about
ANSWER: They have an emphatic d which we do not
ANSWER: They put a dot on top of the sad which is the emphatic s to get the dad
ANSWER: We only have two emphatic letters, teyth and sadh
QUESTION: he says you are talking about Arabic
QUESTION: now
QUESTION: Mizrahi is much closer than I realized in pronunciation
JIMMAL vs GIMMAL DISCUSSION
FURTHER COMMENTS: If you take a look at all Semetic languages and Egyptian, only Western Aramaic and modern incarnations of Hebrew lack a J. Saadia grew up in Egypt and was commenting on classical Arabic
What Saadia failed to comment on was the fact that colloquial Egyptian Arabic has a G/Gh distinction, where all other Arabic dialects have a
J/Gh distinction: Gulf Arabic, on the other hand, pronounced Q (qoph) as G (goph),
unlike every other Arabic dialect (incl classical)
I kived in Yemen for one year, and there I quickly noticed that there are literally two different ways of saying the "Jimal." One correct, and the other wrong. Rabbeinu Saadia Gaon who rules the "Jimal" as a corrupt sound, speaks specifically about the "Jimal" that is made by combining the "Gimel" and the "Yod." I too remember hearing that sound, which sounded very strange to me, since most of the Yemenite Jews will not use it when the say "Jimal." The proper "Jimal" is a sound in itself, and is not a combination of any two sounds.
Rabbi Saadia's statements have led to much confusion, especially by those who have never heard these two sounds, or by those who thought he was referring only to the "Jimel" in all instances. Rabbeinu Saadia Gaon uses the Arabic word for "Jimal," which is "Jeem," and makes one think that this is all inclusive. Yet, when he explains the way the phonetic sound is made, we are left with no doubt that he was speaking about a particular accent and dialect. These are my personal observations, but if one should insist that he meant all sounds which resemble the English "J" sound, then I would have no choice but to answer that man with the response given by Rabbi Yaakov Hajiz in his "Halachoth Ketanoth," which was this: "Now that we have taken it upon us as a custom, even if Eliyahu [the prophet] should come and say it were different, we would not listen to him!"
At any rate, we've disproven this claim of Rabbeinu Sa'adia's, by showing how the Hebrew letter "Sad" (Tzadi = ö)is also a combination of two phonetic sounds produced by the tongue, namely, of "Shin" and "Samach." Yet, no one will disqualify that peculiar sound! Of course, I'm speaking about the way the letter is pronounced by Yemenite Jews (and I suppose by most Sepharadi Jews - although I am no expert on their tongue). By the same token we find the Hebrew letter "Jimal," a combination of two sounds - "Gimel" and "Yod," according to Rabbeinu Sa'adia Gaon. But this can also be refuted, since there are actually two distinct dialects of pronunciation in this letter: One which, indeed, sounds like a combination of "Gimel/Jimal" and "Yod," while the other has a unique sound in itself - i.e. the proper Yemenite pronunciation of "Jimal."
In order to further clarify the matter of RSG and his statements about the "Gimel," I wish to make these final remarks: When RSG says "Gimel," he literally means to say "Jimal," just as the Yemenites would say it, or just like the "J" sound in our English language. But when he speaks about all those superfluous sounds made-up by combining two or more phonetic sounds, he means that queer sound made by combining "Jimal" and "Yod" together. There was never meant to be a disqualification of the ordinary "J" at all! But rather, only that queer sound made by combining "J" with "Y." (This, of course, is one way of looking at his statements- which would definitely refute any opinion which says he meant to disqualify every "J" sound - the good one and the bad one. Another word for "refute" might be "rebuttal." Perhaps this is what I really meant to say.
Indeed, RSG speaks about the "CH" sound, but in a different context. He was not talking about the regular "J" sound as we have been discussing in this forum up unto this point. Rather, RSG had made the following comment in Chapter 2 of "Sefer Ha-Yitzirah:" "Now the heavy 'Shin' sound (ù), behold, its sound is between the 'Shin' and the 'Gimal.' And since these sounds are stolen between two consonants, they have become as corrupted letters, and it is not fitting to number them with the twenty-two [Hebrew] letters, which are basic." To this, Rabbi Yoseph Qafih added a footnote, saying: "Like the letter 'Gimal' in Persian, and likewise, [that 'Gimal'] in the Turkish language (about which he brings down examples), or the 'CH' sound in English, etc." Rabbi Yoseph Qafih concludes there by saying that this particular sound is cusomarily written out in Hebrew with the letters "Tet" and "Shin," as in Tscharnechovsky.
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TSADI / SSAD
QUESTION: Isn't Sad like English S?
QUESTION: My friend tells me you have to put your tongue on the roof of your mouth to say it
ANSWER: no
ANSWER: sadh is like arabic sad
QUESTION: like Tech
QUESTION: teth
QUESTION: like an S sound?
QUESTION: in English?
ANSWER: In english it is most similar to s
QUESTION: Sin and samakh are like the English s, therefore, sad has to be different
ANSWER: sadh is an emphatic samakh like teyth is an emphatic taw
QUESTION: What you mean Emphatic?
ANSWER: You would have to hear me say it
QUESTION: tongue position deeper in throat?
ANSWER: tongue shape
ANSWER: same position otherwise
ANSWER: instead of flat tongue it is cupped, but same position
QUESTION: like a snake sound?
ANSWER: What?
QUESTION: Sad
QUESTION: beginning of the sound
QUESTION: but not Ts
QUESTION: ssissith
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TET vs. TOW (last letter in Aleph be)
Teth is pronounced "T" with the tip of the tongue on the roof of the mouth towards the throat.
Taw is pronounced "T" with the tongue on the roof of the mouth, towards the front.
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TOW (last letter with dagesh) vs THOW (last letter without dagesh)
"TOE" (known as "THOW" without a dagesh) sounds like TH as in THump. Dole (dalet) without a dagesh --known as "THOLE" -- sounds like "TH" as in the word THee. Thump and Thee are two different sounds.
Thaw is pronounced "TH" with the tongue where the teeth meet the roof of the mouth (as in the).
Dhal is pronounced "TH" with the tongue between the teeth, as if
one were lisping (as in thee).
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MEM
QUESTION: What about Mem with a dot and without
I thought Hhaim told me about this once
or perhaps lamed
QUESTION: It means there are two mems or two lameds
ANSWER: There is no t sound in the sadh at all
QUESTION: agreed
ANSWER: dagheysh hhazaq and dagheysh qal are different
ANSWER: dagheysh qal prevents aspiration of the aspirants
ANSWER: dagheysh hhazaq doubles a letter
QUESTION: how can you tell the difference
ANSWER: Only possible aspirants take dagheysh qal
ANSWER: beyth, gimal, dal, kaf, pey, taw
QUESTION: got ya
QUESTION: The Hhazaq occurs on the Resh and Lamed?
QUESTION: and Mem
QUESTION: The lamadh of halleluya has a dagesh hhazaq
ANSWER: It occurs on any non gutteral letter ('aleph, hey, hheyth, `ayyin)
QUESTION: the Chazaq does?
QUESTION: LAMED?
QUESTION: MEM?
ANSWER: By the way, if you ever see a hey with a dot in it, that is called a mappiq
ANSWER: hey with mappiq means hey is not a vowel here but is pronounced
QUESTION: what about Haleluya?
ANSWER: dagheysh hhazaq can occur on ANY non gutteral letter ('aleph, hey, hheyth, `ayyin = gutteral letters)
ANSWER: hallaluyah
ANSWER: there are 2 types of shawa
ANSWER: silent and vocal
OK, you know how there is a pathahh and a shorter duration version of the
pathath called the pathahh shawa?
Well, imagine a pathahh vowel sound that is even shorter in duration than
the pathahh shawa.
Let us call it the vocal shawa.
Vocal shawa default sound is the pathahh with duration shorter than the
pathahh shawa.
The duration time is always the same, no exceptions, but the actual vowel
sound can be different
than the default pathahh sound according to certain rules.
If the following letter is a laryngal letter ('alaph, hey, hheyth, `ayyin)
the super short duration vowel
sound for the vocal shawa is the same sound as the vowel on the following
laryngal letter.
Also, if the following letter is a yodh, the super short duration vowel
sound is hhiraq.
Also, I am not absolutely sure on this one, but if the following letter is a
waw,
the super short duration vowel is a hholam.
QUESTION: levavacha.....
QUESTION: what kind of Shwa is that?
Answer: lavavakha
QUESTION: on the va part
QUESTION: in the Shmah
Answer: Read your email, I sent you the rules
QUESTION: lemad ve ve caf
QUESTION: i don't understand what you mean from your description
QUESTION: are you saying that every
QUESTION: shwah has a default sound no matter what
QUESTION: ?
QUESTION: how do we know when the Shwah stops the sound or when it is a moving shwah?
QUESTION: levavacha is a moving Shwah
QUESTION: on the second vet
QUESTION: what kind of shwa is that.
QUESTION: i am not a linguist
QUESTION: If the following letter is a laryngal letter ('alaph, hey, hheyth, `ayyin)
the super short duration vowel
sound for the vocal shawa is the same sound as the vowel on the following
laryngal letter.
????
QUESTION: you mean following the Shwah?
QUESTION: i need an example of a word
Answer: Every shawa has a default of the super short duration pathahh
Answer: \EVery vocal shawa that is
QUESTION: STOP THERE
QUESTION: wait
Answer: Silent shawa has no vowel sound and only ends a syllable
Answer: In lavavakha there is no silent shawa
QUESTION: How do you tell the difference between a silent Shawa and other Shwah
QUESTION: ?
QUESTION: thats the first business
Answer: Those rules only apply to the vocal shawa, not the silent shawa which has no vowel sound at all
QUESTION: HOW DO WE KNOW WHEN A SHWA IS SILENT OR VOCAL?
Answer: No, the vowel on the following letter after the letter with the vocal shawa
Answer: That is a tough question
QUESTION: its critical to correctly pronouncing Shema`
Answer: silent shawa can never be on the first letter of a word
QUESTION: that much I knew
Answer: silent shawa can never begin a syllable
QUESTION: that doesn't really help
Answer: two next to each other first one is silent and second is vocal
QUESTION: like uvlechtAcha
Answer: and shawa prior to an aspirant letter without dagheysh qal is vocal
QUESTION: that helps a bit
Answer: wuvalakhtakha
QUESTION: how did you know it was VAlakhtackah?
QUESTION: VA?
QUESTION: why didn't it just end the syllable there?
QUESTION: wuVAlakhtakha
Answer: I do not understand
Answer: Could you rephrase the question?
QUESTION: The Be (Bet) is vocal...
QUESTION: VA
Answer: Well, what is on the beyth?
QUESTION: a SHWA right under neath
QUESTION: the bet
Answer: OK, so a vocal shawa right?
QUESTION: How do you know this? Which rule
QUESTION: ?
QUESTION: WHY not end the syllable
QUESTION: there
QUESTION: ?
Answer: You mean wuvlakhtakha?
QUESTION: this is my dillema
QUESTION: YES
QUESTION: exactly
QUESTION: i know that is wrong
QUESTION: But i don't understand why
QUESTION: does one of your rules you've already told me explain it
Answer: Because a prepended letter like beyth, hey, lamadh, kaph, etc... to a word takes a vocal shawa
QUESTION: maybe because it starts with a WOW
Answer: I do not explain in my email how to tell between vocal and silent
Answer: nope
QUESTION: that makes SENSE
QUESTION: YUP
QUESTION: that makes sense
QUESTION: when it is prepended
QUESTION: what about uvishAHarakhaw
Answer: wuvisha`arakha
QUESTION: wow ve shin (with shewa underneath) Ayn Resh Yuth Cawf
QUESTION: yah
Answer: What vowel is on the `ayyin?
QUESTION: why wuvish A 'arakha
QUESTION: Qamas
Answer: then shawa on shin takes super short qamas
QUESTION: it has to do with the vowel?
Answer: Did you now read the rules?
QUESTION: let me try again
QUESTION: okay
QUESTION: got it
QUESTION: now that i see it on a word
QUESTION: I got it
QUESTION: BUT HOW DO YOU REMEMBER THIS STUFF WHILE READING?
QUESTION: yikes
QUESTION: so it would be a super short Qamas?
Answer: Because every body is doing it while yelling it out load together slowly
QUESTION: right?
Answer: That is how
Answer: yes
QUESTION: THANKS !!!!!!!!
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CHIRIQ VOWEL
FALLACY: If the hiriq is followed by an unpointed yodh, it is ee
Din = dol (hiriq) yodh (no vowel) nun
RULE: It is always "EE" . It is just that if the syllable is not emphasized it is shorter and sounds like ih as you say
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SIRI
QUESTION: Yisraayl
ANSWER: Look, you need to get the torath 'avoth 'alaph-bey book and tape set
ANSWER: yeesro'ayl
QUESTION: I just called my Dor Dai friend
QUESTION: I told him about the book
QUESTION: He said the way he learned it from his father is EH
QUESTION: but perhaps he is wrong
QUESTION: i still think the regional differences are there
ANSWER: You need the torath 'avoth book and tape set
ANSWER: 'alaph-bey
QUESTION: he said that was Ashkinaz --I say Bavli
QUESTION: but I told him it was Temani
QUESTION: so he said...this is how I learned it in Yemen and from my father
QUESTION: it MUST BE REGIONAL difference
QUESTION: But Paoloth Saddiq with Hhaim Washti sounds somewhere between eh as in head and ay as in hay.
QUESTION: Also, I have a few Dor Daim friends that pronounce it as eh as in head. It MUST be a regional difference.
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SHIN vs. SIN / Samach
Friend #1: You wouldn't like some of my ideas though - like the idea that "sin" is a superfluous letter
Friend #2: because he found the main Baladi Maharis publisher to teach it this way... he thinks it is law for everyone
Friend #2: I agree
Friend #2: I never understood that AT ALL
Friend #1: You know in the Tora, only some Jews said sin and shin. Others just said sin
Friend #1: Do you remember the story of the shibboleth/sibboleth?
Friend #2: no
Friend #1: Hold on a sec
Friend #2: so which letter was unnecessary
Friend #2: Sin or Samach
Friend #1: Sin
Friend #1: Sin
Friend #2: did the Masorites note it?
Friend #1: For example, the sin in "Yisrauel" makes no sense
Friend #1: No
Friend #2: so would it be YI SH RAEL
Friend #1: Go to Shoftim 12, if you can
Friend #2: i can't
Friend #1: Sorry
Friend #2: are you saying that all the SINS were once pronounced as SHins
Friend #2: ?
Friend #1: Yishrauel makes since - yudh-shin-resh + alaf-lomadh
Friend #1: No
Friend #1: In Shoftim 12, it speaks of how Jiladh said shibboleth while Efrayim said sibboleth
Friend #1: Even back then, there was a difference in pronounciation
Friend #1: However, shin makes more sense, since there is already a sin
Friend #1: Also, in the case of Yisrauel
Friend #1: "struggled with God and prevailed" Yashar-El
Friend #1: You cannot say yisar = will be a prince, since there is no biblical case of yehi being shortened to yi
Friend #2: yehi?
Friend #1: However, y'shar (with a shewa) becoming yishar makes sense
Friend #2: So is your theory that Sin used to be SHIn for everything?
Friend #1: Yes
Friend #1: I will point out that shin is not listed as a double letter in the Sefar Yesira
Friend #2: no one has ever been able to explain why there are two letters in the Hebrew aleh be that sound exactly alike
Friend #2: it doesn't make sense
Friend #2: wow
Friend #1: However, I do use sin and shin right now, since I am not a linguist nor do I have any backing in this matter
Friend #2: I think I agree with you. But I still don't understand your examples without being able to see them
Friend #1: I will point out that the Shomrim, although heretics, do not pronounce sin, only shin, and that iirc, the DSS do not use sin
Friend #2: wow
Friend #2: very interestin
Friend #2: whats iirc?
Friend #2: and dss
Friend #1: If I Recall Correctly
Friend #1: Dead Sea Scrolls. The plain "s" is the only reduntant letter in the entire language. It doesn't make sense.
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RASHI
Rash"i calls the sere a "qomas qathon" in Bereshith.
Sajol is pathah qathon according to Rashi in another place.-- HaAzinu or near there?
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GREEK Transcription
"Tiberian qames is sometimes represented by alpha, sometimes by omicron, pathah and segol by alpha and epsilon, and occasionally omicron, sere generally by eta, hiriq by iota, althout at times for various reasons this is replaced by alpha...or epsilon
"Hireq gadol is represented by epsilon-iota or simply iota, holem by omicron or omega, and qibbus and shureq normally by omicron-upsilon.
"Shewa mobile is usually expressed by zero, less often by epsilon, and rarely by alpha or another vowel."
Yemenite features include the interchange of sere and holem and the interchange of pathah and shewa
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ARABIC Vowel Transcription--standard Arabic, which is based on classical Arabic (which is the only one everyone knew)--Standard Arabic (if memory serves correctly) is classical Arabic with updated syntax. The sounds are the same since those are the ones everyne knows (from the Quran)
ARABIC DEFINITIONS:
fathahh (pathahh) = ah; fathahh alif (qomas) = au or aa; kasra (hireq qathon) = ih; kasra yaw (hireq
jadhol) = ee; damma (holam) = u (or uh or eo); damma waw (shuruq/qubbus) = oo
There is no cognate for the shewa, but there is a "hint", since Arabic leaves it blank (i.e. ibn or kalb)
Just one caveat: Mike speaks Arabic and he says our holam is equivalent to fathahh waw (which to me doesn't make any sense based on other things I have heard and based on Arabic name cognates)
All of the names we have with a hholam (Yosef, Yaqob, etc) have a damma in Arabic (Yusef, Yaqub)