Site Admin: At this point, no one can definitively or authoritatively refer to electricity as a forbidden activity on Shabbath...

Question: Could "avoiding" electricity on Shabbath be MINHAG YISRAEL (the tradition of Israel)? Afterall, it acknowledged (by many) that electricity COULD be a problem (for a myriad of potential reasons). As such, it is "generally" accepted to AVOID using electricity on Shabbath.

Answer: No. It can not possibly be minhag Yisrael, unless it has become universally accepted.

I have heard some Rabbonim claim to legally forbid the use of lights by quoting Hilkoth Shabboth 12:2 in the Mishneh Torah, (Shabbat 12:1):

"One who heats a metal bar in order to temper it in [hot] water has violated the derivative of kindling fire and this is forbidden."

In the same way (they argue), this situation can also be applied to filament in light bulbs, where the iron or metal achieves the same hotness through electricity (which like the water above) is a derivative of fire.

However, filament involves heating with electricity, which can (and usually is) made without fire at all. In the RaMb"M's example, the water is clearing being heated with fire. I don't see any mention here to the waters of Tiveria.

So the comparison is already different. This could also be effected by the type of metal - according to Temani Mori QafaH zs"l. Iron turns into steal when heated to great temperatures, whereas other metals do not. Also, most other metals are malleable. In the end, I did not find the rabbi's proof to be conclusive at all. More importantly, this action is only  prohibited when it is intended to affect the metal!

In my humble view, no one can "make a law" on this. Rather, we can only figure out how it breaks or adheres to the existing law.

Today, the majority of today's rabbonim publically maintain that electricity is either d'Rabbonim (prohibited) or perhaps even D'oraitha (prohibited) for MANY different (conflicting) reasons. However, their authority to rule on this problem is non-existent, until such time as a legitimate, recognized Sanhedrin accurately addresses it. Of course they are entitled to their opinions. In the mean time, I sincerely hope they come up with some type of solid proof - to back up this stance. As it stands now, every "proof" I have ever heard can be debunked.

I must have heard over 10 different reasons. One claimed it under one of the 39 forbidden labors ("makeh be patish" - completing a manufactured product --driving a nail into wood). After reading r. Auerbach's "demonstration" of how this does not apply, I simply could not accept it.

I believe many feel a need to contrive reasons (even outlandish ones).

At this time, the arguments (that electricity is fire, nolad, boneh, cooking or makeh be patish or a derivate of them) remains unconvincing (to me); however, I keep away from electricity as Minhog Yisrael.

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Here is some correspondence between Spanish & Portuguese Rabbi Lopes and one of his talmidim:

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Hi rav, I have a couple of questions regarding your Shita on Electricity on Shabbat.
I tried asking rav oliveira but he never answered me back.

You've glossed over the issue of Electricity on Shabbat several times, so I'm guessing you allow it. The questions are:

#1 (How is it) allowed (for) Incandescent lights? Florescent lights? TV?

#2 You've stated that many sephardic poskim have allowed its use. Who Are these Poskim?
as far as I know a Minority of Sephardic Poskim have allowed its use on Yom tov but not on Shabbat, even R'Ovadia references those poskim

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ביא"ע

Dear friend,

Allow me to share my takes about the subject with other interested people.

Electricity on Shabbath

By Law, we have the following parts:

1) ‘Ur and Toledoth ha’Ur, which we'll call fire and `derivative use of fire heat;

2) Hammáh and Toledoth haHammáh, which is the sun, also called Shemesh, and derivative use of sun heat.

3) Hamé Tiberyyah or the warm waters of Tiberyyah.

The Sages separated between both of them, not classifying Hammáh as fire; nevertheless, we understand, by the authority of the Sanhedhrin, in the Talmudh, the direct use of it is permitted by the Sages, but not fire.

Diním Mufla`ím

There is a prohibition of promulgating new Laws without a Sanhedhrín. Electricity falls under the classification of Diním Mufla’ím, which are those issues that were not either written in Torah or passed down by Qabbalah (Oral Law).

That is why, in most posts i have written about Halakhah, specially Festivals, i have said that some blessings and deeds are not only wrong, but real transgressions of Torath Moshe, `alaw haShalom.

If people want to classify it as fire, then, we say that scientifically fire and electricity are not the same, so can not be weighed (considered) alike.

If electricity is fire, then, we would be forbidden even to wake up from bed, because it would cause sparks and, consequently, we’d be lighting fire on Shabbath intentionally. Most who forbid electricity say one CAN unfold blankets on Shabbath, even when we know it causes sparks to happen. This is a total contradiction of the laws about fire, for which we can not at any extent, light or make use if lit, unless it is for Piqúah Néfesh. How can the laws be different in both cases.

If we insist on saying electricity is fire, we could not even walk. If we do walk, so we'd be liable/Hayyab. No one could say he/she does not know electricity is fire because everybody just assume it is.

Another point is that fire and heat are two separate things to which most people do not pay the slightest attention.

Let’s see for example:

The cables of electricity do not get burnt by the electricity or the sun, but they do get burnt by fire, not even at a very high temperature. Even if we consider they do get burnt, at any degree by sun and electricity, we still get stuck with the law for the sun. In that acceptance, we should also sum plants and certain animals that "burn", by touch.

Electricity can be conducted, but fire, can not. Some people say "Torah forbids us to IGNITE electricity on Shabbath...". This has two different points:

First IGNIS is FIRE and need oxygen to be. Electricity is not called IGNIS. Second, this TO IGNATE drives people to assume, by the thought of the writer that, electricity=fire. I'm not sure most people even realize ignis is fire in Latin.

Is electricity is fire, why most people do not use their home lights for Shabbath or Habdalah? Some Rabbis of our days say one can use it for Shabbath in case you just have one candle for Shabbat and Hanukah. If so, this should be a priori decision, but is used as a fortiori by the majority.

That said, in our humble as tiny view, we say that blessing upon electricity is 'ASSUR! Blessings were composed to FIRE, not electricity.

If they do use for Habdalah, are they going to bless like Beth Shammay? If they do say in accord to Beth Hillel, then there is an incongruence, because the light used has not hues possible to be seen by our eyes as the fire does. It does not mean any hues we can see just through special effects, but the hues we can see with our very eyes. In this case, the Halakhah follows Beth Hillel and those blessings as Beth Shammay would be transgressing the Dibre Sopherim (the Words of the Sages of Sanhedhrin).

If the argumentation is that electricity CAN cause fire, why did the Sages permit the Hammáh, from which we see annually the results in California (It causes tremendous fire as lightning does!)?

Actually, all the arguments given by those who defined electricity as forbidden, are debunkable. Even the most lenient view of R. Auerbach.

What is definitely a matter of astonishment and perplexity is the fact many “orthodox” Rabbis allow people drive their vehicles on Shabbath for the congregants are going to a “Miswah”. There’s no space of allowance here and these Rabbis are just helping people to sin. If this is given by the fact many live under the auspices of the community, so they fall under the ground of “to not make use of the crown of Torah”.

In our humble eyes, cooking on Shabbath with electricity would be forbidden only for Shebbuth, until the Sanhedhrin decides about this issue, which is not that difficult to figure out the differences. We must consider that cooking under the sun is allowed, so would not be done by electricity? This is for one to ponder. We can even see people covering their electric stove! Was the Law of covering about this? What is mentioned in Talmudh, Mishneh Torah etc? Even those who make over gas stoves, as i've seen in Yisrael, are they doing right? More to ponder.

In my humble and ignorant eyes, even considering electricity totally permitted, i'd say people should on their own avoid using appliances and other things that are used to execute any sort of disturbance of the atmosphere of Shabbath and for what it is meant.

I do not see the legitimacy of Minhagh Yisrael in this issue, first because it comes from a specific group of Jews, mainly Eastern European. Before that, from the books i have read, i don't remember of other non-Ashkenazi Rabbis to even mention electricity. Those who did, where already under the power of Ashkenazi Rabbanut or education, to what i include Hakham Ben Uzziel, who was defeated by Ashkenazi Rabbanuth and replaced by Iraqi Rabbis. Some told me, wrote forbidding electricity under pressure. This is basically a 20th century issue for many Jews.

The other part is that before that, the Minhagh was in Eres Yisrael and the West, predominantly Sephardic or Sephardic oriented, and that was not respected in US, where S&P were the first or in the East (E. Yisrael), where Spanyiolim were the authorities under the Ottoman Empire. Some Temanim told me they use electricity on Shabbath. Others, have seen their teacher turning light on while studying and giving all sort of explanations. Besides all that, whichever the reasons are, NOBODY, today can impose Laws upon Yisrael, because NO ONE has the Semikhah or Sanhedhrin authority to do so. Even if they did, we'd need the majority of the Tribunal to begin with.

Since the vast majority of Rabbis today DO NOT KNOW sciences and even say this is a "goy", thing, it would be a harsh fight. And as the RAMBAM says "Truth is not because everybody say so".

Closing the lines, if people abide by this idea of "gadhol haDor", to be a supreme decider over the rest, i'd say that people as big as Ribbi Eli`ezer ben Horkanos, Ribbi Meir and Ribbi Nathan were not listened and even excommunicated, even being said bigger in Torah than the others contemporaneous colleagues. The Torah says "Torah is not in the Heavens". If people still insist, i stay with the words of Maran Yosef Caro "the RAMBAM is the biggest among all the Posseqim", and he holds just like the Talmudh does.

People who hold electricity is fire are nothing but Mahmirím.

Berakhoth,
r. de Lopes הזעיר ס"ט

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Rabbi continues to respond below in red (talmid in Black):

Rabbi while I Understand what you are saying, and indeed agree that Electricity is not assur just because it is assur or just because it is new, there are some common toraitic violations  involved with electricity. Keep in mind that I mean no offence to you are anyone in your community, & I do understand people hold different ways on different things, I was just curious.

As i said before, i do not feel offended anyhow.

1) Most homes (at least in America) have incandescent bulbs
An incandescent bulb works by heating the filament till it glows, which is in fact Assur acourding to Rambam and All poskim

To start off, there were no use of electricity until the 19th century, so incandescent bulbs did not exist prior. As we mentioned before the RAMBAM holds just like the Talmudh in the cases we mentioned. Once again, we are dealing with two different things here, heat VS fire/electricity, acid reactions etc.  I do not know of any cold fire, but this possible for electricity producing light. The Crown of the Posseqím, the RAMBAM says NOTHING about electricity nor does the Talmudh, only what we exposed by the cases of fire, sun and the warm waters of Tiberyyah. The people i know who forbid electricity hail from our Ashkenaz brothers or students of Ashkenazi Rabbis. With all due respect, many are ignorance about sciences or fear to loose their jobs (or any prestige they may have). I believe this whole thing started with the Lithuania. The heating Morénu says is by FIRE!

2) when you flick a switch you complete a circuit, this is Assur

According to proofs of science, this is not so. Switching the circuits does not follow under any of the 39 forbidden Melakhoth of Shabbath. What you're expressing is what some tried to prove as Makkéh beFatish. This is not even considered for the case of fire itself. If you, for example, kindle a long rope and it at the end causes a dynamite to blow, you're not completing anything - but only kindling the fire - itself which is assur. Besides that, electricity is already there and it's not a new created thing. I mean, that the electricity is already in the whose house, being used by another appliances. It it were fire, one was obligated to kindle at different places. If someone says "creating on Shabbath", or moladh, this simply does not exist for Shabbath - but for Yom Tob. The ones who say there is Moladh are the same who forbid using deodorants on Shabbath. I'd ask, if the smell is ALREADY in existence, what would be this "creation"?

Simply there is no Gemár Melakhah at all in this case. First, the circuit is all done, if not, electricity would not work. Nevertheless, if the circuit was not done before Shabbath and was built by the person on Shabbath, this would be considered Makké beFatish - as finishing a jar, for example. If we were to consider completing the circuit, we would be obligated to do the same when we flush away in the toilet or open the faucet. Actually, some Hassidic sects have this principle. Imagine that for Shabbath. For me, this is mocking the Sages of the Talmudh and insulting the Almighty beyond the limits.

in many cases, I see a total distain for reality and sciences. In addition, I detect a desperate run to invent prohibitions. In many Ashkenaz Traditions, especially the East European, this is the case. People use to speak about "the humra of the day". Rabbis can not pretend to be bigger than the Sages of the Talmudh and decide Laws. They CAN NOT decide or ignore sciences when it proves correctly. Of course, as anything else, one must investigate and consult experts in different fields.

Personally, I made an extensive homework before taking my conclusions and asked many experts on electricity and other heating, glowing, burning, melting etc materials.

To close the bar for today, the heating of metal mentioned in Talmudh, RAMBAM, Maran and the classics, is by FIRE! Thus it has no place in our very case in here.

Otherwise, we could keep (extend) this issue in a never ending circle - because (as can be said) there is still electricity caused by the sun!

If someone assumes a chain reaction, the same is also true of the toilet. If someone assumes a chain reaction, caused when electricty is "turned on", there is a chain reaction to everything we do. Look at the switch: the electricity comes and goes, the cables outside the house, the urine... flushing away causes most exactly the same reaction until the water treatment station, then the river etc.

If the infamous methodology of pilpul (or is it bilbul!?) had not been invented, this sort of confusion would not exist or  would be very minor.


as far as the Driving thing goes

Rabbi I don't know where you get that there are Orthodox rabbis that allow driving on Shabbat, I think you may be thinking of Conservative Jews and their vaad of halakha that decades ago (in the 30s i think) issued an Emergency heter,for doing so (similar to the heter of a person who has to go out to see the stars and zmanim,is allowed to be mechalel shabbos for that,for its importance)  However even they (the Conservative vaad) has no stated this Heter no longer applies   as can be seen here http://www.schechter.edu/askrabbi/driving_shabbat.htm 

First, I do not know where you live, but if you live in NY and few other cities in The Americas, observant Jews can walk to their preferred synagogues. In other cities, some wealthy Jews live nearby, but many live way-miles-away! Some people asked me why I believe that driving to the Esnoga is forbidden, when MANY Rabbis say that one could or do not say anything and even granting `alyyoth and other honors to such people in the synagogue. My answer was that there's no (allowance) to use fire on Shabbath -- period. Unless we're dealing with Piquah Néfesh.

Secondly, we welcome people to stay over for Shabbath and Festivals - those who live in the boonies. We do not say it is allowed. Conservative, for me, are sinners. Most "Orthodox" in America, as well, because they might forbid driving, but use the fake `Erub Haseróth and people carry in and out stuff on Shabbath which is a BIG and BOLD SIN!

There are however some Kiruv organisations such as Chabad that "look the other way" but this is only because they know they are dealing with Not (yet) frum people who will be'ezrat Hashem become from

Certain organizations who look the other way are as dangerous as the Missionaries, excluding two people I know of.

thanks for your time



One more question, If Electricity is allowed - what exactly is allowed?

In my humble opinion:

Lights?
Yes.
Reheat food in microwave?
Even if we could allow this, microwaves are terrible for the food. Maybe also for the health. What is incredible here is that in this very case, we do not even see the electricity acting! In the US, almost all food is already doomed enough to still get it microwaved.
TV?
NO, for Shabbath. We must SEPARATE/leQadesh Shabbath from the other days. Plus, what's to be seen on TV?!
Computer?
Well, if it is to read Torah and all related to it, no problem. But totally forbidden to chat, even about Torah, because we MUST invite or get invited to eat with our friends. Shabbath is for God and His Torah, family and friends. This is why Shabbath was always so desired and we star getting ready from Wednesday. This is `Ónegh Shabbath bewaday!

Boas Entradas de Sabá/Shabbath Shalom uMeborákh.

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More from the SITE ADMIN on Electricity:

EXPLORATIONS into possible applications:

Makeh be Patish... driving a nail into wood to finish a product is one of the 39 Malachoth. It has been compared to taking the extra strings off of a button that you just sowed onto your jacket. It involved finishing or completing. This aims to show that lights are forbidden b'Shabboth--and this has nothing to do with fire.

Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Minchat Shlomo pp. 69-73) and Rabbi Yaakov Breisch (Chelkat Yaakov 1:53) strongly disagree about ma'keh bepatish. My understanding is that they see an appliance as designed to be frequently turned on and off, and that action cannot be categorized as ma'keh bepatish. Moreover, they state that it is accepted that an action is considered to be ma'keh bepatish  - only when that final act is permanent or involves great effort. But, since one does not ordinarily intend to turn on an appliance permanently and since turning on an appliance does not involve great effort, this action cannot be considered as violating ma'keh bepatish. The majority of authorities agree that ma'keh bepatish cannot be the source of the prohibition to turn on electrical appliances. 

However, I once heard a comment from a Chasidic Rav / scholar in America--before I even knew that r. Auerbach argued this way. He objected by stating that it doesn't work that way- and it is still a violation of makeh bepatish. He said as follows. Let's say some one plans to build a house (usually a permanent structure) --and then to tear it down right afterwards (for whatever reason)... He is still not permitted to bang in the final nail. At least according to this rav--who clearly disagrees with r Auerbach. However, I found this problematic, because it does have to do with intent there.

Others that have discussed this issue with Rav Halperin (author of 'Shabbot and Electricity') who says it is certainly forbidden, either as a form of 'building', according to the opinion of the Chazon Ish, or as 'nolad' according to the opinion of the Beit Yitzchak, or for both reasons. However, this brings the conversation into people, away from the specific issues - many of which were misunderstood less than 100 years ago.

Even Rabbi Zalman Auerbach --who argues there is no toldah of aish, boneh, or nolad (or makeh b'patish) still held (as far as I've been told) that it was against halacha (or at least minhog) to use electricity.

One thing is certain (in my assessment): IT CAN NOT BE FIRE.

Fire is a chemical reaction that causes a release into a plasma.

Site Admin. Quoting another Rav (ZAK) regarding the use of Shinoy:

Site Admin.: Anything that is Biblically prohibitted, like lighting a fire or the other--liable for capital punishment -- is only liable if done with Makshovah (intent for that purpose)
Site Admin.: Regarding the taking of food from a fridge (by opening the door) when the light is going to come on. I don't need the light or don't want the light. Then what? 
Site Admin.: So Biblically speaking it is not a capital offense because I am not opening for that purpose. BUT the Rabbis prohibited any secondary melacha if it will always happen
Site Admin.: even if not intended.
Site Admin.: A Rabbinic stricture is Prohibited but there is no punishment if you do it
Site Admin.: Electricity (according to some) is an extension of burning or boneh (circuitry is 'building' something)
Site Admin.: Another example: sometimes there is more allowance for the Tzibbur.
Site Admin.: If I used the Elbow to do something in a particular situation--I may be POTER
Site Admin.: If there is no tolda of aish or boneh... electricity could be considered a minhag.

About Sparks that sometimes appear *like* fire when turning on a light- from an engineer

It is electrical discharge.
Like static electrical discharge is not fire.
It is dielectric breakdown and ionization of the gas between the two differential potentials to create a path for the charge to flow.
Not fire
Fire produces plasma, but is plasma fire?
Hmmm...
I would say WORK is a process of energy transfer, and that is why fire is malakha
Plasma is just a state of matter.
Fire is a chemical reaction known as combustion.